Thank you a hundred times over for this article. It needs screamed from the rooftops!
I had a double mastectomy 10 years ago because of breast cancer. I was 36. I hate it being minimised as ‘top surgery’. It’s major surgery which leaves you with a variety of problems from scar tissue to reduced mobility.
It is not a simple or straightforward option for gender dysphoria and it makes my blood boil when I hear it being described as life saving for trans people.
I had to wait 2 months for my surgery on the NHS and that was with a cancer diagnosis. Needless to say, I do not think this should ever be available for trans people on the NHS and certainly never for children.
I have even witnessed doctors telling women that if they changed their mind they could just get implants in the future. Giving the completely wrong impression of what this surgery does.
I’ve actually been speaking to a lovely girl in America who has de transitioned and is wondering about whether to have a reconstruction. Utterly heartbreaking.
Great article, very informative. However I do disagree on one point, which is that breastfeeding for me has been one of the most empowering, grown up, affirming and independence making as an adult woman experience that I have ever had. I’ve spent 5 years doing it with 3 babies and it’s on my list of top ten all time pleasures, even though it hurts like hell to start with. I think we need to teach young women about the privilege of nourishing new life and the joy that goes with that. It puts having periods into a gloriously different perspective.
I also breastfed my own two kids, and loved doing so - my point isn’t that it’s bad, or horrible, or anything like that - it’s that it’s the most ‘entangled’ thing a human being does with/to/for another. We glorify independence in our culture, and teenage years are exactly when kids are most likely to want to strike out.
It's not how _I_ define it that matters - it's what young women think. But also - when you're breastfeeding you're not independent, it's just a fact. Nobody else can do it for you. You can't head off for a few days - heck you can't even get an unbroken night! It's the most interdependent thing there is. That's precisely what's beautiful about it, but also what is so terrifying for girls and young women in flight from adulthood, responsibility and reality.
That’s really true Helen. Young women are terrified about interdependence, not realising that they are already totally interdependent with social media (for example) and don’t really understand what ‘independence’ is at all.
However, I think those young women who have their breasts amputated probably don’t even think along those lines. They have been brainwashed by the trans ideology and hate their bodies.. just like those who feel “whole” only when a limb is removed. It is illegal to remove a healthy limb and very few doctors will do it. So why is amputation of healthy breasts not illegal? Why does the trans community have special rights?
I honestly didn’t even think about it until I had my kids & then it was like 💡 aahhh this is what they are for. What’s that, primal..instinct? Even though it was yes, painful (the first time) it felt like it was the best nourishment they could get so I had no choice. And the pleasure came later, that only I could console my child when he needed it. It was a unique bond
I love the article and learn so much. But the root cause lies in the evil propagandists who started this delusion of a mutable sex by any means. These are the satans we must rid of before we can talk sense into the teens.
We have to hold government and ngos plus that evil mayor to account by lawsuits (you mentioned it), by legal means, hurting them financially and reputationally.
Social media companies and what communications they allow, do not allow, facilitate and exploit also have a great deal to do with the increase in "trans" ideology among adolescents and children. The AI "companion" technology is likely to make many problems worse for kids if it isn't regulated by authorities external to the social media companies.
I also breastfed my three children, and to deny an infant this nourishment is selfish. The bonding with your new baby is a wonderful experience . The girls who throw away their womanhood are to be pitied!
Those who are proud of their scars and parade them around are mentally ill.
Exactly, Melissa. I want to see medical malpractice lawsuits out the wazoo. And it isn't "a conservative issue," as my clueless liberal confrères paint it. It's a human issue.
Nobody with more than two synapses snapping in his or her brain can possibly approve of this mutilation and the glorification of it.
Roughly 50% of the procedures plastic surgeons perform are cosmetic. Despite the known harm from silicone implants, industry just fashioned some 'better' ones. If this is reduced to a cosmetic procedure, it ought to help but the psychological manipulation and marketing for this needs to end.
Yes! To all of this and having Helen on Substack!💜💚 Not sure why the sexual pleasure of having breasts isn't discussed here. Because you’re British, maybe ;)? Regardless of whether a woman experiences the life giving, bonding, oxytocin enhancing experience of feeding her baby, natural breasts are highly sensitive organs for sexual purposes too. There's a kind of dreamy look that men get when gazing at attractive cleavage that can be arousing in the appropriate circumstances, over candlelight say. I can't imagine sex without breasts, frankly. It would be possible of course, but with so much missing. I sympathize with women who have had to have them removed and wish the young women who are considering this optional self mutilation would listen to them. Also to me: breasts are sexy and sex can be one of life's greatest pleasures. Enjoy the life, and the body, you have been blessed with!
Thanks Brigid, I raised the same issue without having read this. On further reflection I realised how little discussion there is, in our society generally, of the role of breasts in female sexual pleasure. Not at all surprising, but still worthy of some feminist attention
I agree with you, Brigid. It is worth remembering that much of female sexuality and sexual pleasure comes from being desired.
I think that learning to accept yourself and your sexuality is just part of adolescence. Maybe it is harder for teen girls to do so in today's pornified, divisive culture.
Yes, this is exactly what young trans identified men experience when they take estrogen and grow their own breasts - the same pleasurable experiences you just described. You may fault young trans identified women for wanting to get rid of theirs, but how can you fault young TIMs for wanting to grow them?
Dana, I wouldn't say I fault anyone exactly, but I think they're on a dangerous fool's errand if they are trying to be something they aren't. I'm not a believer in gender theory, so reject the premise of your question, that there is such a thing as a person born in the wrong body. I long to be able to stretch my wings and soar into the air like an eagle, and I've had many dreams in which I do, but if I wanted surgery or pharmaceuticals to create wings from my human body, it would be called delusional. Men have nipples that can bring pleasure, but artificial breasts in men or women are less sensitive and a kind of consumer fraud in my view. Ain't nothing like the real thing.
And how do you know my artificially mimicking the opposite sex (as opposed to not medicalizing I suppose) will not give me lifelong joy, and will not give me improved health?
I hope that you do get lifelong joy and health, from whatever sources you can get it. Unfortunately, we do not have enough evidence to support the belief that taking high doses of "cross sex" hormones will give you improved health, and the little evidence we have indicates the opposite. This should not be surprising, given that HRT using own sex hormones also increases risks of cardiovascular events and breast cancer, based on the current evidence base. The evidence is inconsistent for the benefits and harms derived from use of exogenous estrogen by women.
T is a very rough hormone, I’m glad it doesn’t dominate my physiology, it makes one prone to a lot of things that I don’t want like baldness, facial hair, hairy body, angular musculature, etc etc. As (I assume) a woman, how would you feel if you suddenly developed those traits? Probably not good - I feel the same way about my body. I can admire & sexually desire masculine physical traits in other men, but in me it is a horror. That in essence is what gender dysphoria is.
I know that gender dysphoria is real for many of the people who seek gender treatments, and it creates a lot of suffering for them. Seen from the outside, however, the bodies of the sufferers are normal in their form and function, and many trans identified people are beautiful by any standard. It is tragic and very sad that they do not recognize this, and that they are so resistant to realistic positive feedback. It is very similar to what goes on with anorectic women, who think they are ugly, then turn themselves into copies of concentration camp victims in their efforts to become more acceptable.
I need to break off our conversation here. I appreciate the respectful dialogue and your willingness to share your personal experience.
I’m not talking about breast implants, I’m talking about “natural” breast development in a male body via taking exogenous estrogen. I’m totally agreeing with the erogenous pleasure that breasts can give one, whether they are grown as part of female puberty or grown by a TIM from estrogen. The joy that a young TIM experiences when he realizes how sensitive and yes, beautiful, his budding breasts are, is as legitimate as the joy any woman feels about her breasts. Breasts are wonderful erogenous organs, they are beautiful, and I don’t begrudge anyone of either sex wanting to have them.
Men don't grow breasts, hormone induced gynaecomastia, ie fatty deposits around their pectoral muscles, are not breasts. Those weird looking chest lumps are no claim to femininity, just more projection of delusion.
You are incorrect, men are born with mammary tissue, including all the ducts and other structures that women are born with. Estrogen sends the message to these tissues to grow & become active, testosterone sends the message to remain dormant. Yes, mammary glands are mostly fatty lumps, but they also have structure and glandular tissue. My breasts are the same as a woman’s. Call it gynecomastia if you want, it’s just semantics; it’s mammary tissue, same as a woman’s.
The female breast including the nipple and milk duct changes in structure during puberty, and again during pregnancy. A male taking oestrogen during adulthood won't get the same result.
Also, I don’t believe in gender ideology either, but there are simply males drawn to femininity, and repulsed by their own masculinity, starting from a young age. They will pursue feminizing themselves regardless of the risks, and the shaming by parents and society. The obverse is undoubtedly true of trans identified women, though I am not one so can’t speak to their experiences.
Hormones have risks and side effects, so not natural or harmless in my view. I don't believe it's honest to tell people they can buy (or have others pay for) optional physical alterations that will satisfy their urge to be something they aren't. Maybe I have less faith in doctors and their motives. I don't believe the "joy" one gets from artificially mimicking the opposite sex will be lasting or healthy in the long run.
It’s given me joy for 30 years. I enjoy excellent health. The main risks from taking exogenous estrogen - blood clots & increased breast cancer risk - has not affected me. I get a yearly mammogram. Just as most women would hate to have their breasts removed, so would I, though I am not a biological woman.
I recommend watching the video called "The Plastic Surgeon's Verdict: 'Gender Surgery is Mutilation not Medicine'"on Stella O'Malley's Substack. The guest being interviewed is reconstructive plastic surgeon Dr. Patrick Lappert. Dr. Lappert explains that a woman's nipple is connected by a dedicated nerve to the part of the brain that produces oxytocin, and the "top surgery" procedure irreparably destroys that connection.
I think the entire interview is amazing, especially with respect to
Dr. Lappert's crystal clear explanation of the medical ethics that are supposed to guide the practices of plastic surgeons. Dr. Lappert shared horrifying personal observations of vendors at plastic surgeons' conferences pitching GAC training programs, using the lure of bringing increased income into the doctors' already highly lucrative practices.
I’m not sure whether you are referring to mtf top surgery or ftm top surgery… but many mtf trans people, especially ones who transitioned early early, don’t get implants. There is no surgery involved in their full breast development.
Also, where there is a need in the market place, someone will fulfill it. This is why I don’t see the predicted avalanche of lawsuits against providers of GAC materializing; people who seek these procedures & hormones desperately want them at the time, even if they change their minds later. Buyer’s Remorse as a legal gambit generally doesn’t work - risks, benefits & complications have been explained, signatures have put to legal forms whether the client truly understood or not. They asked for it. I have tons of sympathy for detransitioners, but ultimately, we learn big life lessons when we make big mistakes. Also, GAC surgeries aren’t experimental, they were developed in the 60s & 70s. They are old tried & true surgeries.
Experimental medical treatments are those for which we do not yet fully understand the long term benefits and risks. Optimally, we need to have evidence for benefits and risks for entire lifetimes of patients receiving those treatments. Collecting this evidence requires lifelong follow up or at least multi year follow up that includes formal research on medical necessity, safety and effectiveness.
To get the patients' informed consent for treatments that have been in use for less time than patients' anticipated lifetime, doctors should tell them that we only have data for 10 years post-surgery or whatever length of time for which we have evidence. For example, I have had multiple joints replaced, and the surgeons all told me how long the prosthetic devices had been in use, the time limits of follow up in existing research, and based on these facts, the probable or possible longevity of the prostheses in years.
We do not have any data on safety or effectiveness of any gender treatments that has been gathered over the lifetimes of patients, or even past about four years. We have very little prospective research (the data collection starts before the treatment and continues afterwards) that tracks outcomes. The reasons for this absence include: gender clinics haven't bothered to collect follow up data on safety and effectiveness, or they made some effort to collect some data, but it wasn't a sufficient or competently executed effort. Studies that have been published suffer from lack of pre-treatment and post-treatment measurements, high drop out rates of patients, (about whom we know little or nothing), insufficient duration of follow up times, lack of comparison groups who received alternate or no treatments, lack of randomized assignment of patients to treatment or alternative groups, as well as other methodological problems, such as obvious biases among investigators. Meanwhile, the treatments used by gender clinicians have changed a lot over time, so we need data on the new ones.
Right now, we should be telling patients that no gender treatment has been proven to be safe or effective, so all of the interventions are experimental.
The concept of gender clinics and a widely disseminated standard of care for trans people is only about 20 years old; there were gender clinics before that, a few, like Zucker’s clinic, but they were few & far between and gender affirming care was still kind of a fringe off label thing that establishment medicine & especially medical research wanted nothing to do with. And trans identified men (the vast majority back then) carried such a burden of shame that they had no desire to be under a microscope for decades - they just wanted to their estrogen and neovagina & disappear into the wind. The fact that we have ANY rigorously collected data on the medicalization of trans people is due to the phenomenon becoming (mostly) destigmatized in the last 20 years (though I personally know of teens who still get kicked out of the house for coming out as trans). The usual way you got E back in the 80s & 90s was that you learned from word of mouth about the one endocrinologist in your city who was sympathetic to the community & would write a scrip for you, no questions asked, or like me you learned you could buy E in Mexico without a scrip, and other dubious ways of going about it. Mainstream medicine wanted nothing to do with it.
My story is I castrated myself with a kitchen knife, eventually got the courage to go to an endocrinologist, sans gonads & thus any sex hormones on board, and they STILL refused to give me E (they would have happily given me T, but I would rather have died). I suffered horrendous hot flashes until I clued into getting E the dubious unmonitored ways other TIMs were getting it. You have no idea how much better it is today!
I mean, from my POV.
There will probably never be a large body of accurate long term longitudinal research on how trans people fare with the care they get, so I guess then it will always be experimental!
The article focused on women who are getting mastectomies as part of an ftm transition, and that is what I was referring to.
Medical transition procedures are currently being marketed as “life saving,” “medically necessary care” for the adolescent girls and boys who are seeking to get them. They are none of the above, according to the evidence base. No diagnosed condition is being treated, and there is no solid evidence that any part of GAC is effective in treating any psychiatric condition. As your own posts imply, GAC is actually cosmetic surgery that increasing numbers of medical providers have been offering on demand to underage people. To market these procedures as curative for any condition is unethical, because the doctors are removing healthy body parts for no reason.
I have met male detransitioners who had to have breast surgery to eliminate the abnormal development they had from using estrogen. I think these surgeries were less radical than the mastectomies performed on teen aged girls, but I am not an expert on post transition surgeries. All surgeries create some level of harm to the body, some of which is lasting and not correctible with more surgery.
I agree, gender affirming surgeries aren’t experimental not curative - for most trans people who medicalize, gender dysphoria is so profound that hormones and surgery at best are treatments that relieve symptoms, not cure them. But if you hate your gendered body, altering it to make it incrementally closer to the gendered body you desire to have brings a certain level of relief. Which is c pretty much the motive of anyone seeking cosmetic procedures, trying to get a ripped bod by going to the gym, etc etc. Gender affirming surgery is really no different than a face lift or nose job, and that’s why almost no insurance covered it until about 20 years ago. I have not benefitted but I am glad they are covered by many (by no means all) health insurance policies these days.
People who hate their bodies have a mental/emotional problem for which they should seek psychological treatments and participate in them fully. Most people who identify as trans are unwilling to do this.
Lobotomies also brought some relief to patients who undertook them but long term outcomes for people in general included losses of various brain structures and functions that were previously normal.
Healthy sexuality is a relationship between two people, involving pleasure and bonding. A man becoming aroused by himself with breasts is a solo experience. I don't consider it a healthy form of sexual expression.
Not at all - most of my sexual partners have enjoyed my breasts, admired them, used them to heighten ardor and sensual pleasure… just as most women find their breasts admired and touched to heighten sexual pleasure. And to be fair, most heterosexual women and homosexual men stimulate male nipples & areolas for sexual arousal; it is an erogenous zone in both sexes! Also, totally not a solo experience, totally love being desired partly because of my breasts and other female coded aspects of my body! Everyone loves to be sexually desired! This is absolutely not the exclusive purview of women!
Thank you for this enormously powerful essay, and yes, sadly, still timely. I am another among those commenting here who had to have a bilateral mastectomy due to breast cancer. I chose against reconstruction because I wanted nothing more to do with hospitals and surgeons—I wanted to be free to get back to my life. Later, a friend went through several surgeries for reconstruction and died of breast cancer shortly after. These experiences underscore, for me, how heinous it is on every level that anyone would lure young, healthy women down this destructive, unnecessary path.
It is so vile, what therapists and physicians are doing, and surgeons even worse. I wish every one of them would lose his or her medical license and be criminall prosecuted. They are butchers. But I know it will never happen. If I believed in Hell I would pray that they would all rot there.
I agree that an avalanche of medical malpractice lawsuits is the only thing that's going to end this madness.
I attended an opera performance a few months ago where a young woman -- a very beautiful young woman -- performed who clearly had had her breasts cut off. Her costume was such that you could see the scars. She was listed in the program as a "male soprano." She isn't male; she's female. Even her voice gave her away. It wasn't the voice of a male soprano. It was the voice of a young woman. It was so sad to see this beautiful girl so mutilated.
Well, actually, male soprano is a completely legit voice; some call it a subset of countertenor.
But this singer isn't male, no matter how much she wants to pretend she is. As I said, I found it terribly sad that this beautiful young woman had cut off her breasts.
There was an article in the NYT recently that said that 40% of women who get mastectomys experience some form of chronic pain following on from the surgery.
This was not about trans stuff so I suspect it would have primarily been women with cancer or high cancer risk. It seems absolutely bananas to me that we would be performing this surgery on healthy women.
It also struck me as remarkable that we are willing to talk about these side effects when they arise as the result of a necessary surgery that may save your life, but not when it's an experimental treatment for a poorly defined condition that has exploded in recent years.
That’s so sad. And I would expect the chronic pain rate for these elective mastectomies is even higher. Because pre-existing mental health issues are a big risk factor for chronic pain after a surgery or illness. Also it’s more psychically fraught- you are trying to have the femaleness removed from you but on some level you know that’s impossible, unlike with cancer where you are removing something dangerous and saving your own life.
Thanks for this insightful article Helen. As someone who had a mastectomy after breast cancer I find it heartbreaking that young women undertake this surgery so lightly.
I’m a total Helen Joyce groupie.I love all her writings for their thoughtful and caring nature.This subject is so horrifying to me when I know how glorious the human body was designed to work.Children,breastfeeding and the whole maternal bond are what holds civilization together and maybe that is the sole point of trying to destroy it.
Exactly right. The use of ‘top surgery’ hides the horror. The amputation of healthy breasts to create a masculinised chest is a major surgical intervention which strips the nerves from a woman’s chest to leave their skin lacking in physical sensation. It removes both the sexual function and breastfeeding function from young women.
It is basically an extension of the plastic surgery industry, which now focuses more on serving people who aspire to be more "attractive" than on helping people with clinical issues, i.e., reconstruction of abnormal anatomy. The same is also true for the dermatology industry. The doctors make more money performing procedures designed to serve narcissistic goals than they do practicing conventional medicine.
This is just so unrelentingly sick. I stopped reading partway through as it's just going to make me even more upset. I'm furious at Democrats who allow and promote this, as there is no excuse with the evidence available to refute this insanity.. Josef Mengele would be impressed with their ability to make this mutilation acceptable. There should be a Mengele award to acknowledge their contributions.
That London billboard is incredibly idiotic. They/them #WEareeverywhere... "Who are WE?" "Um..They/them" So shouldn't it be #Theyareeverywhere? That's more like it.
Those f*ckers steal EVERYTHING! "We are everywhere and we will be free!" Is a classic GAY Rights chant/slogan from the very early days of the GAY rights movement and has always been my favorite. G-ddammit!
Thank you for this incredible analysis of all that is wrong with the double mastectomy movement. I am a teachers union delegate in California for CTA. In our statewide assembly in June, the following Pride Month video was shared to the assembly room with 800 State delegates. The video starts out with James Baldwin and the original gay rights movement in the US and ends with glorifying double mastectomies done on young women, a speech by Chase Strangio, and a call to trans rights. More time and footage was used to showcase double mastectomies and the utterance of the term “trans” than any other. I do not believe that the word “lesbian” is anywhere to be found. 800 educators were forced to watch this video, most of us women. What an unbelievable inversion of “pride”. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nuKfDSNAhZqFIWbL4VsILWFDN9q1AJzX/view
Great perspective, thank you. I'm withdrawing from NEA over this and other far left positions despite my third generation union loyalty. If there's any chance of forming a caucus that would push back, I'd reconsider. I don't see it happening in my deep blue east coast state, sadly.
Thank you a hundred times over for this article. It needs screamed from the rooftops!
I had a double mastectomy 10 years ago because of breast cancer. I was 36. I hate it being minimised as ‘top surgery’. It’s major surgery which leaves you with a variety of problems from scar tissue to reduced mobility.
It is not a simple or straightforward option for gender dysphoria and it makes my blood boil when I hear it being described as life saving for trans people.
I had to wait 2 months for my surgery on the NHS and that was with a cancer diagnosis. Needless to say, I do not think this should ever be available for trans people on the NHS and certainly never for children.
I have even witnessed doctors telling women that if they changed their mind they could just get implants in the future. Giving the completely wrong impression of what this surgery does.
I’ve actually been speaking to a lovely girl in America who has de transitioned and is wondering about whether to have a reconstruction. Utterly heartbreaking.
Great article, very informative. However I do disagree on one point, which is that breastfeeding for me has been one of the most empowering, grown up, affirming and independence making as an adult woman experience that I have ever had. I’ve spent 5 years doing it with 3 babies and it’s on my list of top ten all time pleasures, even though it hurts like hell to start with. I think we need to teach young women about the privilege of nourishing new life and the joy that goes with that. It puts having periods into a gloriously different perspective.
I also breastfed my own two kids, and loved doing so - my point isn’t that it’s bad, or horrible, or anything like that - it’s that it’s the most ‘entangled’ thing a human being does with/to/for another. We glorify independence in our culture, and teenage years are exactly when kids are most likely to want to strike out.
It’s really interesting how we define independence though, don’t you think? Maybe that needs more reflection? 🤔
It's not how _I_ define it that matters - it's what young women think. But also - when you're breastfeeding you're not independent, it's just a fact. Nobody else can do it for you. You can't head off for a few days - heck you can't even get an unbroken night! It's the most interdependent thing there is. That's precisely what's beautiful about it, but also what is so terrifying for girls and young women in flight from adulthood, responsibility and reality.
That’s really true Helen. Young women are terrified about interdependence, not realising that they are already totally interdependent with social media (for example) and don’t really understand what ‘independence’ is at all.
However, I think those young women who have their breasts amputated probably don’t even think along those lines. They have been brainwashed by the trans ideology and hate their bodies.. just like those who feel “whole” only when a limb is removed. It is illegal to remove a healthy limb and very few doctors will do it. So why is amputation of healthy breasts not illegal? Why does the trans community have special rights?
Absolutely correct. Why aren't more people, especially surgeons talking about the illegality of removing healthy body parts?
Social media & their love bombing peers, wiping us out, tossing us to the side, so brave, except they are not
I honestly didn’t even think about it until I had my kids & then it was like 💡 aahhh this is what they are for. What’s that, primal..instinct? Even though it was yes, painful (the first time) it felt like it was the best nourishment they could get so I had no choice. And the pleasure came later, that only I could console my child when he needed it. It was a unique bond
I love the article and learn so much. But the root cause lies in the evil propagandists who started this delusion of a mutable sex by any means. These are the satans we must rid of before we can talk sense into the teens.
We have to hold government and ngos plus that evil mayor to account by lawsuits (you mentioned it), by legal means, hurting them financially and reputationally.
Social media companies and what communications they allow, do not allow, facilitate and exploit also have a great deal to do with the increase in "trans" ideology among adolescents and children. The AI "companion" technology is likely to make many problems worse for kids if it isn't regulated by authorities external to the social media companies.
I also breastfed my three children, and to deny an infant this nourishment is selfish. The bonding with your new baby is a wonderful experience . The girls who throw away their womanhood are to be pitied!
Those who are proud of their scars and parade them around are mentally ill.
The trans ideology is an ideology of the insane.
Yes the bonding is very precious ❤️
Agree. I am so glad that I was able to feed my children. It was exhausting but an amazing bonding experience.
Brilliant article—thank you, Helen!
How to stop the body modification cult?
Stop paying for it. Surgeons won’t perform these cosmetic surgeries without compensation. No to trans interventions via public or private insurance.
An aside: not that long ago, women were required to wait until age 35 to have a tubal ligation.
Detransitioners, keep up the lawsuits.
Journalists, do your part to show the harms. This isn’t a conservative issue.
Exactly, Melissa. I want to see medical malpractice lawsuits out the wazoo. And it isn't "a conservative issue," as my clueless liberal confrères paint it. It's a human issue.
Nobody with more than two synapses snapping in his or her brain can possibly approve of this mutilation and the glorification of it.
Well said, Lisa!
Roughly 50% of the procedures plastic surgeons perform are cosmetic. Despite the known harm from silicone implants, industry just fashioned some 'better' ones. If this is reduced to a cosmetic procedure, it ought to help but the psychological manipulation and marketing for this needs to end.
Yes! To all of this and having Helen on Substack!💜💚 Not sure why the sexual pleasure of having breasts isn't discussed here. Because you’re British, maybe ;)? Regardless of whether a woman experiences the life giving, bonding, oxytocin enhancing experience of feeding her baby, natural breasts are highly sensitive organs for sexual purposes too. There's a kind of dreamy look that men get when gazing at attractive cleavage that can be arousing in the appropriate circumstances, over candlelight say. I can't imagine sex without breasts, frankly. It would be possible of course, but with so much missing. I sympathize with women who have had to have them removed and wish the young women who are considering this optional self mutilation would listen to them. Also to me: breasts are sexy and sex can be one of life's greatest pleasures. Enjoy the life, and the body, you have been blessed with!
Thanks Brigid, I raised the same issue without having read this. On further reflection I realised how little discussion there is, in our society generally, of the role of breasts in female sexual pleasure. Not at all surprising, but still worthy of some feminist attention
The trans cult is not concerned with pleasure!
I agree with you, Brigid. It is worth remembering that much of female sexuality and sexual pleasure comes from being desired.
I think that learning to accept yourself and your sexuality is just part of adolescence. Maybe it is harder for teen girls to do so in today's pornified, divisive culture.
Yes, this is exactly what young trans identified men experience when they take estrogen and grow their own breasts - the same pleasurable experiences you just described. You may fault young trans identified women for wanting to get rid of theirs, but how can you fault young TIMs for wanting to grow them?
Dana, I wouldn't say I fault anyone exactly, but I think they're on a dangerous fool's errand if they are trying to be something they aren't. I'm not a believer in gender theory, so reject the premise of your question, that there is such a thing as a person born in the wrong body. I long to be able to stretch my wings and soar into the air like an eagle, and I've had many dreams in which I do, but if I wanted surgery or pharmaceuticals to create wings from my human body, it would be called delusional. Men have nipples that can bring pleasure, but artificial breasts in men or women are less sensitive and a kind of consumer fraud in my view. Ain't nothing like the real thing.
And how do you know my artificially mimicking the opposite sex (as opposed to not medicalizing I suppose) will not give me lifelong joy, and will not give me improved health?
I hope that you do get lifelong joy and health, from whatever sources you can get it. Unfortunately, we do not have enough evidence to support the belief that taking high doses of "cross sex" hormones will give you improved health, and the little evidence we have indicates the opposite. This should not be surprising, given that HRT using own sex hormones also increases risks of cardiovascular events and breast cancer, based on the current evidence base. The evidence is inconsistent for the benefits and harms derived from use of exogenous estrogen by women.
T is a very rough hormone, I’m glad it doesn’t dominate my physiology, it makes one prone to a lot of things that I don’t want like baldness, facial hair, hairy body, angular musculature, etc etc. As (I assume) a woman, how would you feel if you suddenly developed those traits? Probably not good - I feel the same way about my body. I can admire & sexually desire masculine physical traits in other men, but in me it is a horror. That in essence is what gender dysphoria is.
I know that gender dysphoria is real for many of the people who seek gender treatments, and it creates a lot of suffering for them. Seen from the outside, however, the bodies of the sufferers are normal in their form and function, and many trans identified people are beautiful by any standard. It is tragic and very sad that they do not recognize this, and that they are so resistant to realistic positive feedback. It is very similar to what goes on with anorectic women, who think they are ugly, then turn themselves into copies of concentration camp victims in their efforts to become more acceptable.
I need to break off our conversation here. I appreciate the respectful dialogue and your willingness to share your personal experience.
I’m not talking about breast implants, I’m talking about “natural” breast development in a male body via taking exogenous estrogen. I’m totally agreeing with the erogenous pleasure that breasts can give one, whether they are grown as part of female puberty or grown by a TIM from estrogen. The joy that a young TIM experiences when he realizes how sensitive and yes, beautiful, his budding breasts are, is as legitimate as the joy any woman feels about her breasts. Breasts are wonderful erogenous organs, they are beautiful, and I don’t begrudge anyone of either sex wanting to have them.
Men don't grow breasts, hormone induced gynaecomastia, ie fatty deposits around their pectoral muscles, are not breasts. Those weird looking chest lumps are no claim to femininity, just more projection of delusion.
You are incorrect, men are born with mammary tissue, including all the ducts and other structures that women are born with. Estrogen sends the message to these tissues to grow & become active, testosterone sends the message to remain dormant. Yes, mammary glands are mostly fatty lumps, but they also have structure and glandular tissue. My breasts are the same as a woman’s. Call it gynecomastia if you want, it’s just semantics; it’s mammary tissue, same as a woman’s.
The female breast including the nipple and milk duct changes in structure during puberty, and again during pregnancy. A male taking oestrogen during adulthood won't get the same result.
Also, I don’t believe in gender ideology either, but there are simply males drawn to femininity, and repulsed by their own masculinity, starting from a young age. They will pursue feminizing themselves regardless of the risks, and the shaming by parents and society. The obverse is undoubtedly true of trans identified women, though I am not one so can’t speak to their experiences.
Hormones have risks and side effects, so not natural or harmless in my view. I don't believe it's honest to tell people they can buy (or have others pay for) optional physical alterations that will satisfy their urge to be something they aren't. Maybe I have less faith in doctors and their motives. I don't believe the "joy" one gets from artificially mimicking the opposite sex will be lasting or healthy in the long run.
It’s given me joy for 30 years. I enjoy excellent health. The main risks from taking exogenous estrogen - blood clots & increased breast cancer risk - has not affected me. I get a yearly mammogram. Just as most women would hate to have their breasts removed, so would I, though I am not a biological woman.
I recommend watching the video called "The Plastic Surgeon's Verdict: 'Gender Surgery is Mutilation not Medicine'"on Stella O'Malley's Substack. The guest being interviewed is reconstructive plastic surgeon Dr. Patrick Lappert. Dr. Lappert explains that a woman's nipple is connected by a dedicated nerve to the part of the brain that produces oxytocin, and the "top surgery" procedure irreparably destroys that connection.
I think the entire interview is amazing, especially with respect to
Dr. Lappert's crystal clear explanation of the medical ethics that are supposed to guide the practices of plastic surgeons. Dr. Lappert shared horrifying personal observations of vendors at plastic surgeons' conferences pitching GAC training programs, using the lure of bringing increased income into the doctors' already highly lucrative practices.
I’m not sure whether you are referring to mtf top surgery or ftm top surgery… but many mtf trans people, especially ones who transitioned early early, don’t get implants. There is no surgery involved in their full breast development.
Also, where there is a need in the market place, someone will fulfill it. This is why I don’t see the predicted avalanche of lawsuits against providers of GAC materializing; people who seek these procedures & hormones desperately want them at the time, even if they change their minds later. Buyer’s Remorse as a legal gambit generally doesn’t work - risks, benefits & complications have been explained, signatures have put to legal forms whether the client truly understood or not. They asked for it. I have tons of sympathy for detransitioners, but ultimately, we learn big life lessons when we make big mistakes. Also, GAC surgeries aren’t experimental, they were developed in the 60s & 70s. They are old tried & true surgeries.
Experimental medical treatments are those for which we do not yet fully understand the long term benefits and risks. Optimally, we need to have evidence for benefits and risks for entire lifetimes of patients receiving those treatments. Collecting this evidence requires lifelong follow up or at least multi year follow up that includes formal research on medical necessity, safety and effectiveness.
To get the patients' informed consent for treatments that have been in use for less time than patients' anticipated lifetime, doctors should tell them that we only have data for 10 years post-surgery or whatever length of time for which we have evidence. For example, I have had multiple joints replaced, and the surgeons all told me how long the prosthetic devices had been in use, the time limits of follow up in existing research, and based on these facts, the probable or possible longevity of the prostheses in years.
We do not have any data on safety or effectiveness of any gender treatments that has been gathered over the lifetimes of patients, or even past about four years. We have very little prospective research (the data collection starts before the treatment and continues afterwards) that tracks outcomes. The reasons for this absence include: gender clinics haven't bothered to collect follow up data on safety and effectiveness, or they made some effort to collect some data, but it wasn't a sufficient or competently executed effort. Studies that have been published suffer from lack of pre-treatment and post-treatment measurements, high drop out rates of patients, (about whom we know little or nothing), insufficient duration of follow up times, lack of comparison groups who received alternate or no treatments, lack of randomized assignment of patients to treatment or alternative groups, as well as other methodological problems, such as obvious biases among investigators. Meanwhile, the treatments used by gender clinicians have changed a lot over time, so we need data on the new ones.
Right now, we should be telling patients that no gender treatment has been proven to be safe or effective, so all of the interventions are experimental.
The concept of gender clinics and a widely disseminated standard of care for trans people is only about 20 years old; there were gender clinics before that, a few, like Zucker’s clinic, but they were few & far between and gender affirming care was still kind of a fringe off label thing that establishment medicine & especially medical research wanted nothing to do with. And trans identified men (the vast majority back then) carried such a burden of shame that they had no desire to be under a microscope for decades - they just wanted to their estrogen and neovagina & disappear into the wind. The fact that we have ANY rigorously collected data on the medicalization of trans people is due to the phenomenon becoming (mostly) destigmatized in the last 20 years (though I personally know of teens who still get kicked out of the house for coming out as trans). The usual way you got E back in the 80s & 90s was that you learned from word of mouth about the one endocrinologist in your city who was sympathetic to the community & would write a scrip for you, no questions asked, or like me you learned you could buy E in Mexico without a scrip, and other dubious ways of going about it. Mainstream medicine wanted nothing to do with it.
My story is I castrated myself with a kitchen knife, eventually got the courage to go to an endocrinologist, sans gonads & thus any sex hormones on board, and they STILL refused to give me E (they would have happily given me T, but I would rather have died). I suffered horrendous hot flashes until I clued into getting E the dubious unmonitored ways other TIMs were getting it. You have no idea how much better it is today!
I mean, from my POV.
There will probably never be a large body of accurate long term longitudinal research on how trans people fare with the care they get, so I guess then it will always be experimental!
(Yet god will still keep making trans people)
The article focused on women who are getting mastectomies as part of an ftm transition, and that is what I was referring to.
Medical transition procedures are currently being marketed as “life saving,” “medically necessary care” for the adolescent girls and boys who are seeking to get them. They are none of the above, according to the evidence base. No diagnosed condition is being treated, and there is no solid evidence that any part of GAC is effective in treating any psychiatric condition. As your own posts imply, GAC is actually cosmetic surgery that increasing numbers of medical providers have been offering on demand to underage people. To market these procedures as curative for any condition is unethical, because the doctors are removing healthy body parts for no reason.
I have met male detransitioners who had to have breast surgery to eliminate the abnormal development they had from using estrogen. I think these surgeries were less radical than the mastectomies performed on teen aged girls, but I am not an expert on post transition surgeries. All surgeries create some level of harm to the body, some of which is lasting and not correctible with more surgery.
I agree, gender affirming surgeries aren’t experimental not curative - for most trans people who medicalize, gender dysphoria is so profound that hormones and surgery at best are treatments that relieve symptoms, not cure them. But if you hate your gendered body, altering it to make it incrementally closer to the gendered body you desire to have brings a certain level of relief. Which is c pretty much the motive of anyone seeking cosmetic procedures, trying to get a ripped bod by going to the gym, etc etc. Gender affirming surgery is really no different than a face lift or nose job, and that’s why almost no insurance covered it until about 20 years ago. I have not benefitted but I am glad they are covered by many (by no means all) health insurance policies these days.
People who hate their bodies have a mental/emotional problem for which they should seek psychological treatments and participate in them fully. Most people who identify as trans are unwilling to do this.
Lobotomies also brought some relief to patients who undertook them but long term outcomes for people in general included losses of various brain structures and functions that were previously normal.
Healthy sexuality is a relationship between two people, involving pleasure and bonding. A man becoming aroused by himself with breasts is a solo experience. I don't consider it a healthy form of sexual expression.
Not at all - most of my sexual partners have enjoyed my breasts, admired them, used them to heighten ardor and sensual pleasure… just as most women find their breasts admired and touched to heighten sexual pleasure. And to be fair, most heterosexual women and homosexual men stimulate male nipples & areolas for sexual arousal; it is an erogenous zone in both sexes! Also, totally not a solo experience, totally love being desired partly because of my breasts and other female coded aspects of my body! Everyone loves to be sexually desired! This is absolutely not the exclusive purview of women!
Thank you for this enormously powerful essay, and yes, sadly, still timely. I am another among those commenting here who had to have a bilateral mastectomy due to breast cancer. I chose against reconstruction because I wanted nothing more to do with hospitals and surgeons—I wanted to be free to get back to my life. Later, a friend went through several surgeries for reconstruction and died of breast cancer shortly after. These experiences underscore, for me, how heinous it is on every level that anyone would lure young, healthy women down this destructive, unnecessary path.
It is so vile, what therapists and physicians are doing, and surgeons even worse. I wish every one of them would lose his or her medical license and be criminall prosecuted. They are butchers. But I know it will never happen. If I believed in Hell I would pray that they would all rot there.
I agree that an avalanche of medical malpractice lawsuits is the only thing that's going to end this madness.
I attended an opera performance a few months ago where a young woman -- a very beautiful young woman -- performed who clearly had had her breasts cut off. Her costume was such that you could see the scars. She was listed in the program as a "male soprano." She isn't male; she's female. Even her voice gave her away. It wasn't the voice of a male soprano. It was the voice of a young woman. It was so sad to see this beautiful girl so mutilated.
We are living in Bizarro World.
Wow! I love opera , but that would not have been an enjoyable experience for me! A “ male” soprano? Ugh!
Well, actually, male soprano is a completely legit voice; some call it a subset of countertenor.
But this singer isn't male, no matter how much she wants to pretend she is. As I said, I found it terribly sad that this beautiful young woman had cut off her breasts.
Wow. I'm always curious about what happens with singing voices and the roles attached
There was an article in the NYT recently that said that 40% of women who get mastectomys experience some form of chronic pain following on from the surgery.
This was not about trans stuff so I suspect it would have primarily been women with cancer or high cancer risk. It seems absolutely bananas to me that we would be performing this surgery on healthy women.
It also struck me as remarkable that we are willing to talk about these side effects when they arise as the result of a necessary surgery that may save your life, but not when it's an experimental treatment for a poorly defined condition that has exploded in recent years.
That’s so sad. And I would expect the chronic pain rate for these elective mastectomies is even higher. Because pre-existing mental health issues are a big risk factor for chronic pain after a surgery or illness. Also it’s more psychically fraught- you are trying to have the femaleness removed from you but on some level you know that’s impossible, unlike with cancer where you are removing something dangerous and saving your own life.
Thanks for this insightful article Helen. As someone who had a mastectomy after breast cancer I find it heartbreaking that young women undertake this surgery so lightly.
I’m a total Helen Joyce groupie.I love all her writings for their thoughtful and caring nature.This subject is so horrifying to me when I know how glorious the human body was designed to work.Children,breastfeeding and the whole maternal bond are what holds civilization together and maybe that is the sole point of trying to destroy it.
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Excellent article. I feel so bad for young girls who are victims of this.
Exactly right. The use of ‘top surgery’ hides the horror. The amputation of healthy breasts to create a masculinised chest is a major surgical intervention which strips the nerves from a woman’s chest to leave their skin lacking in physical sensation. It removes both the sexual function and breastfeeding function from young women.
We cover this and other harmful gender interventions in our blog https://open.substack.com/pub/biologyinmedicine/p/gender-language-hides-the-horror?r=5ics92&utm_medium=ios
Do you happen to know if the normal male nipple is connected to the brain in the same way that a woman's nipple is?
How did surgical mutilation and chemical castration turn into a fashion trend? Heartbreaking.
It is basically an extension of the plastic surgery industry, which now focuses more on serving people who aspire to be more "attractive" than on helping people with clinical issues, i.e., reconstruction of abnormal anatomy. The same is also true for the dermatology industry. The doctors make more money performing procedures designed to serve narcissistic goals than they do practicing conventional medicine.
This is just so unrelentingly sick. I stopped reading partway through as it's just going to make me even more upset. I'm furious at Democrats who allow and promote this, as there is no excuse with the evidence available to refute this insanity.. Josef Mengele would be impressed with their ability to make this mutilation acceptable. There should be a Mengele award to acknowledge their contributions.
We are past Dr. Mengele and on to Dr Moreau.
I loved reading Wells as a kid.
Agreed! All this makes me sick and furious!
Thanks for all you do, Helen.
I read your book the day it came out. Cool and cogent in debate. You’re very much appreciated.
That London billboard is incredibly idiotic. They/them #WEareeverywhere... "Who are WE?" "Um..They/them" So shouldn't it be #Theyareeverywhere? That's more like it.
Those f*ckers steal EVERYTHING! "We are everywhere and we will be free!" Is a classic GAY Rights chant/slogan from the very early days of the GAY rights movement and has always been my favorite. G-ddammit!
Thank you for this incredible analysis of all that is wrong with the double mastectomy movement. I am a teachers union delegate in California for CTA. In our statewide assembly in June, the following Pride Month video was shared to the assembly room with 800 State delegates. The video starts out with James Baldwin and the original gay rights movement in the US and ends with glorifying double mastectomies done on young women, a speech by Chase Strangio, and a call to trans rights. More time and footage was used to showcase double mastectomies and the utterance of the term “trans” than any other. I do not believe that the word “lesbian” is anywhere to be found. 800 educators were forced to watch this video, most of us women. What an unbelievable inversion of “pride”. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nuKfDSNAhZqFIWbL4VsILWFDN9q1AJzX/view
Sick. Thanks for sharing.
Great perspective, thank you. I'm withdrawing from NEA over this and other far left positions despite my third generation union loyalty. If there's any chance of forming a caucus that would push back, I'd reconsider. I don't see it happening in my deep blue east coast state, sadly.